Don’t Use Marshall’s Locksmith in Raleigh, NC
I remember the days when I used to get angry at predatory businesses. Those businesses that decided rather than operating an honest establishment and providing a true service to their customers; they would look for any opportunity they could find to rip their customers off under the belief that these consumers were not powerful enough to damage their credibility. Oh, how I love you internet!
Let’s start this saga from the beginning. About a week ago, I purchased a very slick Lexus ES 300 from a dealer in Chapel Hill. Yeah, the game’s been good to me. But not that good. There was a minor problem with the purchase in the fact that the dealer was not in possession of the original keyless entry remotes that should have come with the vehicle. Usually, I would’ve demanded this problem to be rectified prior to the purchase, but the dealer was willing to play ball on the purchase price, so I agreed to eat the cost of replacing the remotes.
I first looked to a Lexus dealership to replace the remote, but their $450 price tag on the new key & programming made eBay a much better option. It cost me about $80 bucks to replace the key (the keyless entry controls are built into the key itself) and the merchant sent programming instructions, that initially scared the shit out of me, but actually worked and it only took me about 5 minutes to program the thing. I was relieved that I had just saved myself a couple hundred bucks and figured the hard part was out of the way. Wrong.
Although, the keyless entry system was now working, I still had to get the key cut. For some reason, Lexus decided to make this process very difficult, by inserting the grooves to their keys inside the metal frame as you can see in the picture above. I called around to Wal-Mart and a couple of other places I knew to handle key duplication, who all told me that they didn’t have the technology to perform that sort of duplication and I would have to find a locksmith.
Finding a locksmith to handle the task was a bit harder than I thought, but I finally talked to a nice old scumbag guy, who recommended Marshall’s Locksmith in Raleigh. I looked them up, found their website and was even able to submit my information online and receive a price quote from them before making the trip out there.
They quickly responded letting me know they could handle the job for $35. Not bad, although still more than I wanted to pay to get a fucking key duplicated.
So I finally make the trip out there today and explained what needed to be done. The inbreed guy behind the counter informed me that they could handle the job…for $125. I gave the guy a cockeyed glare and let him know I was quoted $35 for the job. He was obviously disappointed by the news and began to try to convince me that simply cutting the key may not work because “it may have a transponder chip”, which would require the car to be hooked up to a computer and programmed. Hence the word may in the previous quote, as at this point he was definitely not certain that this would be an issue.
It didn’t make sense to me that the key would need any sort of extra programming, as it was clear that my car was already accepting whatever radio frequency this remote was emitting. I told him I’d take my chances on just having the thing cut.
Clearly disappointed that I wasn’t buying his bullshit, he takes my keys and proceeds with the duplication. This process literally took less than 2 minutes. Not even enough time for me to update my Twitter status about this adventure.
He returns with my newly cut key, rings me up for $35, which he certainly deserved for all that labor he put into this job. Then as he hands me my receipt, he confidently informs me that they will be happy to handle the programming of the transponder when I “decide” to have it done. If this guy had not been about 3 times my size, I would have tried to stab him in the eye with the key right there on the spot. I knew before I got to my car that this key wasn’t going to work and so did he.
And, of course, it didn’t. I’m still not sold on the idea that a transponder has anything to do with this, as the key definitely seemed to fit awkwardly in the ignition and for all I know the guy used some secret locksmith trick to ensure that the thing would come close, but not start the car. Frankly, I don’t care. My problem is that this guy knew from the time I explained the job, what it would entail and I’m confident that he didn’t learn anything new between the time I walked in and after he had processed my payment that would allow him to predict that simply cutting the key would not work.
Rather than spend any more time on this stupid process, I’m cutting my losses and will just shave the non-working key down to function as a keyless entry remote (which is all I wanted to begin with) and continue using the key I’ve got.
As for Marshall’s Locksmith, I’m happy to use my secret search engine optimization tricks to ensure that anytime a customer looks them up, they will not fall prey to their deceptive business practices.
Thanks Marshall’s Locksmith! It was a pleasure being ripped off by doing business with you…
DandyID
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04/16/2009
While you definately received bad service – it very well may be a chip for your key. I have a grand am I bought almost 7 years ago and I can't copy my keys. I was told by the dealer that I could and they would fit and open the doors, but not start the car.
04/16/2009
You're right and I was careful not to make any claims that could be construed as libelous, as this obviously isn't an area where I have a lot of expertise.
I do feel that this company needs to be held accountable for their poor business practices and a) should have warned me before I came in about the possible chip issue rather than blindsiding me with a price nearly 4X higher than their estimate, b) obviously knew there was a definitive answer about the chip before charging me to copy the key and c) should not have copied the key if they knew it would not work.
04/29/2009
I'm a locksmith — a *competitor* of Marshall's in fact. You didn't get a bad deal. Your problem is that you think you know more that the expert in the field and have no respect for their expertise. The process might have only taken a few minutes, but did it occur to you that Wal-Mart and even most locksmiths can't do it because the equipment is very specialized and expensive to maintain? No, because you're not thinking anything except "it's just a duplicate key." You said yourself that the dealer tried to charge you WAY more than this locksmith, and that you're trying to get by cheap by doing it yourself off the internet. You asked Marshall's — vehicle and key sight unseen — what it would cost to CUT the key. $35. Upon seeing the key with electronic components, they warned you that it had that it needed programming in order to start the car, and still quoted you 1/4 the price of the dealer. And yet you think you're the expert and they're the scumbags? Get a clue.
04/29/2009
I promised I wasn't going to devote more time to this, but since it's a slow day at the office and you've decided to step into my world; I'll play ball.
First, let me say thank God you're a locksmith and not a teacher, because clearly reading comprehension is not an area of strength for you. If you read my post or bothered to read the comment directly above yours; you would clearly see that I admittedly am NOT an expert in the locksmith business.
But I do know what the term BAIT AND SWITCH means and that's actually what we're dealing with here.
Marshall's may not have seen my key before I came into their shop, but they were well aware of the make and model of the vehicle and obviously could have warned me that there may be an issue with the chip before I came to their shop.
This did not happen. Instead, I was led to their shop expecting to have a simple duplication done and then told, and please pay attention here, that there MAY be a chip inside that would need to be programmed. It was clearly not a definitive statement, rather an option to gamble by paying them $125, when I may have only needed to pay $35 or take my chances paying $35 for nothing. As we know, I chose the latter, which is how we've gotten here.
I think you and I both know that with sight of the vehicle and the key; there truly was a definitive answer to the chip issue, yet Marshall's chose not to disclose this answer, as they didn't want to see my $35 walk out the door.
Here is how the situation should have played out:
Me: Hi, I'm here to get a Lexus key duplicated and was informed that this fine establishment that you run can handle the job.
Clerk: We would be happy to perform this task for you. Are you aware that your key requires programming of a transponder chip?
Me: No, I was not aware of that.
Clerk: Yes, it definitely has a transponder chip that will have to be programmed and that is a much more extensive process than a normal key duplication and runs $125.
Me: Wow! That's a lot more than I wanted to pay for this job. So you are saying that simply duplicating the key will not work?
Clerk: No sir, simply duplicating the key will definitely not work.
Me: Well, I thank you for your time and honesty in this transaction. I have decided that this job is not important enough to me to warrant a $125 expenditure and will just use the remote as a keyless entry device.
Clerk: I understand and hope that if you decide at a later date to have the key programmed you will consider using Marshall's for the job. Have a nice day!
Wasn't that simple?
04/29/2009
If you are in NYC you might try Arties Locksmith. They are great at this type of thing.__http://www.locksmithnyc.com/
04/29/2009
Well said. Another locksmith in NYC. Most of us are honest.
http://www.locksmithnyc.com/
04/29/2009
We at Marshall’s Locksmith Service wanted to apologize for any confusion we may have had with you. The quote you were given was based on the below email and was for only cutting the key. Your email makes no mention of needing the key programmed so we did not estimate that price for you. We apologize for any inconvenience that this miscommunication may have caused.
04/29/2009
From: sales [mailto:sales@marshallslocks.com]
Sent: Monday, April 13, 2009 8:28 AM
To: djxplosive@gmail.com
Subject: RE: Estimate Request
We can cut the key for you so long as it is not a steel blank. No appointment necessary. Will cost you $35 no guarantee.
Thanks,
Cris
—–Original Message—–
From: djxplosive@gmail.com [mailto:djxplosive@gmail.com]
Sent: Saturday, April 11, 2009 6:07 PM
To: sales@marshallslocks.com
Subject: Estimate Request
Job description: I need a key duplicated for a 2002 Lexus ES 300 that I recently purchased. I had to order a new key with the keyless entry feature, which I was able to program, but now need someone to duplicate the key I currently have so I can use the keyless entry key as the master.
04/29/2009
Theft-Deterrent System
A small transponder embedded in the SC's key transmits a personal identification code to the engine control computer. Unless the system reads the proper code, the computer will not activate the ignition and fuel injection and the SC is immobilized
Lexus has implemented a key and transponder system that maximizes the security of their vehicles. It not only requires a laser cut key, but it has a transponder frequency chip that communicates with the vehicle. The inlay cut design of this key provides two separate points of security. First off it is hard to duplicate, secondly it is highly impervious to picking. Inside the remote head of these keys is where the door transmitter and car transponder are located. Once the transponder chip is programmed to the vehicle it stays programmed. Meaning if you bust the shell you can take the already programmed components and swap to a new head without having to re-program the components. However the door remote and car transponder are two separate frequencies and communicate with different systems.
04/29/2009
Car manufacturers are constantly trying to improve their security systems to stay ahead of the criminals. We understand that as consumers it is difficult to stay educated on all the manufactures different security measures and that is why we work so hard to stay informed for you. Not only do we keep ourselves familiar with these increasingly sophisticated systems, but we use the best equipment with the most current information available. The machines and technology that we use as well as the programs and training that are necessary to communicate with these machines are very expensive and are constantly changing each year and with every model. We as a company and the vendors that we deal with are constantly working to improve aftermarket technology so that we are able to offer affordable ways to provide duplicate keys. We try to provide an alternative to the dealer. We do this to ensure that we are giving our customers the best product for their money. We at Marshall’s stock a high security Lexus transponder key that we sell brand new cut and programmed for $125. The downside is that it does not have the door remote. It still beats the dealer cut and programmed price of $450.
04/29/2009
Again, we apologize for any inconvenience and hope this clarifies the issue for you.
Thanks,
Cris
Marshall’s Locksmith
04/29/2009
Um, I think I understood. You asked about having the key cut only, and they quoted you for that. Worse yet (now that your e-mail has been shown) you stated *explicitly* in your e-mail that it was "already programmed." So it's crystal clear why they quoted you for the cutting without the programming in that circumstance.
The person who waited on you at the shop told you immediately, before providing any service, that it had a chip that needed programming to start your car. Actually, the transaction at the shop went very much like what you recommended above, except that you CHOSE to bet against the expert's advice. They told you what it needed and what it would cost, so you could have opted out without paying a penny before they even started. But you "knew better," and it's their fault? Heck, you even accused them of sabotaging your key. You should be ashamed of yourself!
04/29/2009
I'm sorry, but your comments do NOT clarify this issue.
In fact, it makes me even more frustrated with your company.
It is now quite clear that you had the resources available beforehand to identify what would be involved in this process. Although you are quoting literature for the SC model, I will interrupt this to include the ES model, which is actually what we're talking about here.
If it was that easy for you to figure out that Lexus had implemented this advanced theft deterrent system; why was no mention made of this in response to my first email inquiry?
Let me guess, because I said that the key was already programmed. Did you honestly believe I was able to program the transponder chip on my own? Clearly, the language of my email reflects that I was talking about the keyless entry system and not the transponder chip.
All this technical jargon does not erase the fact that once I came to your shop, you still charged me $35 to perform a task you knew would not solve the problem. That's blatant dishonesty and quite petty in my opinion.
Please read my above comment in response to Ms.Busse, as I believe it is an accurate depiction of how your company should have handled this situation.
And as I have previously mentioned, your lack of accountability throughout this ordeal is what is really troubling. It is not the fault of the consumer when the expert offers no definitive solution to the problem.
04/29/2009
I think my response to Mr.Cris below should suffice as defense to the logic you are trying to apply to this argument.
What is actually interesting to me is that you referred to yourself as a competitor to Marshall's Locksmith.
How is it a competitor is able to provide a complete play-by-play of the interaction between myself and the clerk at Marshall's Locksmith? Were you there?
04/30/2009
A. Everything I know about the transaction is from the blog posts. You recounted the transaction (admitting, for instance, that they told you before cutting the key that it wouldn't work without being programmed). They also posted your original e-mail.
B. You told them by e-mail that the key was "already programmed" and that you only needed it cut. That's the quote you got. They assumed that you knew what you were talking about. Some customers do. How is it their fault for not assuming that you're an idiot? Not all customers are. Some are dealers and mechanics. Some people really do know what they're talking about.
C. By your own account of events, when you arrived at the shop, they told you, before doing anything, that the key wouldn't start your car unless the chip was programmed. You could have taken their advice and, if you weren't willing to pay for the programming, walked away without spending a dime.
D. They only cut it for you without programming ON YOUR INSISTENCE, AGAINST THEIR RECOMMENDATION. They warned you that the key wouldn't start your car, and you chose wrong. Marshall's was in no way dishonest. Sometimes, it pays to listen to the experts. You swaggered in there thinking you got a deal on E-bay, telling them how to do their job. It's your own fault.
Marshall's is not dishonest. The only thing they could have really done differently was to refuse to service you outright. Then you'd be on here ranting about that!
04/30/2009
Once again, you're wrong. I have stated over and over again that prior to the key being cut it was only stated that the key MAY not start my car. Now they have further supported my case by making it quite clear that they knew there was a YES or NO answer to be given by providing the above literature.
Why do you keep sidestepping this point?
I did not bet against expert advice. I chose to gamble with $35 instead of $125 because NO expert advice was given. Stating it might work, might not work is not advice. It's an ultimatum. Had they said "Your car will not start by just having this key cut" prior to charging me $35, I wouldn't be on here "ranting" (which coincidentally is why this post is tagged as a RANT).
I think my readers (who have grown significantly due to the entertaining nature of this dialogue) understand that I'm not going to go out of my way to chronicle an experience and then continue argue with a bunch of locksmiths if I were truly to blame. I don't walk around looking for businesses to write about because I like to cause problems. What I do is provide a service to other consumers when I feel an injustice has occurred due to bad business practices.
So for the last time I will repeat what the underlying point of this post is about: It is not the fault of the consumer when the expert offers no definitive solution to the problem.
04/30/2009
What may help to clarify this is that when we had first interacted in person I had no idea that we had communicated via e-mail prior to you being at the store. You had asked me for a duplicate key for your ES300. I looked up the info on the computer pulled up the info on your vehicle and proceeded to quote you the price for a cut and programmed TOY48-BT4 which is $125. I was quoting you for a duplicate key and it was at that point you told me you HAD a key that you just needed cut. Apologetically I should have taken more time to explain to you why I had quoted you what I did and why there was a major discrepancy. In all honesty I would never try to take advantage of a customer, it is not in my nature. The only reason that I may have come across with uncertainty about the necessity of your key needing to be programmed was because I did not want to offend your certainty of it not needing it. Even cut and programmed I would not have charged you $125 if I had not supplied the blank.
05/01/2009
That's what happens when you "experts" in the subject hire professionals to do the work. You always know more than the professional.
07/21/2009
i think the main point is that not only are you not an expert you have no idea what you are talking about as far as locks,keys,locksmith.i have be dealing with marshells for years with honest dependble and fair priced service,the main point you keep making is you were trying to get it done as cheap as possable well you get what you pay for if you have not got that yet..and futher more who the hell buys a car with out keys?!?
10/31/2009
It is true and things needed to be taken concern of.
locksmiths
12/07/2009
You've got a real attitude problem. You refuse to recognize your own incompetence. If you can't afford Lexus prices, don't buy a Lexus. You tried to be 'smart' and learned a lesson. Stop your friggin whining and get on with your life.
01/20/2010
Some transponder-equipped vehicles are real botch jobs. If an after-market alarm person needs to put something fancy on the vehicle such as a remote start, some installers will tape a transponder near the sensor ring to totally bypass the transponder feature. Not a very secure method of installing an alarm, but it does happen. Therefore, if your locksmith cut the key and it started without programming the vehicle he probably would have looked like an idiot. If he states "maybe", then there's the wiggle room just in case some idiot alarm guy taped a transponder to the sensor ring.
$35 isn't bad considering the cost of equipment. Some of those sidewinder machines are $5000 to $10,000. How many keys at $35 does it take to pay back a $5000 investment? 143. Geez… I charge more than $35 because I want to pay that machine off quicker, pay my employees, and make a profit.
Marshalls! You need to increase your rate. $35 is pitiful.
02/05/2010
hey jerk you secret search engine just shows everyone the hits how much of a moron you are yay for you idiot